John Babbitts

Please join us in the transformational conversation with John Babbits who spent 29 years working for a delivery services company. John worked his way into training and retention for the company where he played a role in making great progress on reducing turnover.

Listen as John describes his faith in action that included building rapport with the employees to develop a bridge between management and employees. John talks about how God equips the called.

 If you want to be encouraged and equipped to live your life of faith more effectively in the workplace, the Skillful at Work Podcast is for you. 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Skillful at Work Podcast, where we explore living out our faith in the workplace. I am your host, Dr. Kurt Beck, a professor of management and a leadership coach. Join me in my next conversation as I talk with Christians, skillfully living out their faith at work, for examples, resources, and practical tips that will encourage and equip us to honor God at work. Today we are talking with John Babbitt. John, could you please share a brief overview of your background and experience?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Sure. So I spent uh 29 years working for a package delivery company. The first six of those years was uh loading, unloading, sorting the packages. Then I went into part-time supervision and I ran every type of area, but then was transferred to training and retention. Uh when I entered that, we had a 200% annual workforce turnover and uh 75% new hire turnover. So um when I left, we had a 75% total workforce turnover and a 42% new hire turnover. So we were able to make great progress there. And uh then I went to full-time supervision and I was in both in um part-time and full-time, I was in charge of audits and uh took care of the the uh audits for um compliance for safety from OSHA Ketter, um, also the company audits on training. And then uh I was also uh in charge of working with um the semi-drivers and and other supervisors on that. And uh at the same time I was doing ministry during the day, uh, either assisting or leading congregations, and um had a number of part-time positions that that gave me a variety of experiences.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

So, John, talk to me a little bit more about this um great improvement you had. You called it a great progress, and and that was pretty phenomenal in the uh turnover, right? What what do you think that was implemented? What part did you play in that? How did that come about?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

That was mainly implemented by providing a consistency and training experiences in uh humanizing the workforce uh and how we dealt with them. As a training and retention supervisor, I would be the the go-to person. I would be the uh to the new for the new hires, I would be the one who was the bridge between uh management and the the new employees and the current employees. And I was able to build a good rapport with uh both sides, and so we were and able to translate the emotions or the actions of one to the other so that it was easier to uh take and and leave at the door when they went home.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Building rapport is such a key part of building you know trust in our in our relationships. How do you how did you tell us more about how do you build rapport with these employees and with then being the bridge to management?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

So I would have meetings at night where uh once a week we would have the new hires in and they would come in to a room, we would have pizza, and we'd ask them, how's the job going? And what's good, what's bad, what what are you frustrated with? And we'd show them that a lot of their experiences were things that went through uh almost everybody goes through in the first 30 days. In addition to that, having been in those positions, uh, I could empathize with them on what they were facing. I also would be able to um, I would go to the supervisors and I would say, you know, they're experiencing this, and you know, just be aware of that fact. Another thing that we did was we started a newsletter, and one of the things I find a lot of fun is to visit national parks. And so the opening article was always an employee from delivering a package to a national park. We we we gave away more issues of the newsletter than we actually had employees because people love to read it, and then they would get past that first article, and there would be um maybe so a little information about the job, but more uh recognizing birthdays, accomplishments in people's lives, and and really trying to bring a cohesion to our relationships.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Excellent idea to bring in something that would draw in other people's interests. How did tell me more about your passion for national parks?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

So I made uh a goal, not really old enough to say 30 years ago, but 30 years ago, uh that I wanted to visit all of the national park sites. And at this point, I've visited uh 263 of the 430. So um wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

I really phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I really enjoy going to the parks because I'm an American and I love to learn about the country and it exposes me to the different cultures of the different areas of our country. And it it's we God has blessed us with such a beautiful nation and the diversity not only in ecosystems but in uh the foods. I like to try the the foods that are unique to a particular state, it it's really a lot of fun, and so those things would be woven into the stories.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

So you would actually find someone who had delivered to a park, and then you built that story in into the newsletter.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

It was partly based on a running joke. I didn't actually find someone who went who uh who did that, but wherever we went, there would be a delivery vehicle of from my workplace, and the joke was that they were keeping an eye on me. We pulled in we went into Tombstone, Arizona, and one of them drove by us. We we were in uh it was a double-wide trailer 14 miles off of Route 95 in North Carolina with six chairs and a big screen TV for a movie. And while we're watching the 10-minute film to describe the history of the area, uh one of the drivers walked in and delivered a package. So the the person delivering the package uh was uh somewhat fictional, but the it was all based on my actual experience. I never wrote on a place that I hadn't actually visited and couldn't describe in detail.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Awesome. That that's really uh an interesting way, but it's also builds that these levels of communication and trust. So excellent. Uh, one of the goals of the Skillful at Work podcast is to encourage and equip Christians to live skillfully in the workplace, sharing their experiences and practical tips. Uh, John, as a Christian in the marketplace, tell us about some of your experiences of of living out your faith at work in addition to what we've already talked about.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Well, God really blessed my time there. I I have to admit that um when I left, it was one of the happiest days of my life. It was it wasn't the the job I did for 29 years, the company was wonderful, uh, but it was not really where I wanted to be. It was where God placed me. And uh so I I just have a few stories that I want I I thought to share with you. Uh, there were a lot of opportunities of counseling. There was one individual I taught the catechism to. There were two suicides I prevented, but I had one man, he was an immigrant from Pakistan, and he asked me what I was doing over the weekend. People would frequently, because of my position and my relationship with them, would stop by the office. And uh I told him I was leading a worship service on Saturday, and he said, Oh, I would love to come see it sometime. I said, Well, why don't you come Saturday? So he came uh and he said, They would let me in a church. I said, Of course we'll let you in the church. So he came and uh at the end of the service, he said, That was deeply moving, but there's a lot I don't understand. So he stayed for an hour of Bible study. Next he said, When can I come back? I said, Come next week. So he came the next week and stayed for two hours of Bible study. And then the following week was three hours of Bible study after church. My wife is wondering why I'm getting in at 11 o'clock at night for a seven o'clock service. But in our discussions, he really connected with Luther. Uh, he said he we we watched the 93 version with uh Finnez, and uh he said he could understand what it was like to be brought up in a system where you believe what they tell you or you die. And then uh he couldn't visualize the crucifixion, so we watched the that section of the Jesus of Nazareth miniseries, and it was Good Friday, so we watched Good Friday, and he wanted to watch the rest, and I said, No, you gotta wait till Easter. And at three o'clock in the morning on Easter, he said, I can't wait anymore. We gotta watch the rest. Okay. Fortunately, my wife was away, so she didn't have a fit. So but he came to Christ. I had a man, he was in my office and uh co-worker of mine, fellow supervisor, and he said, forget what prompted it, but he looked at me, he said, bad idea. It'll just start a fight. And he walked out of the office. So I prayed to God, I said, You gotta tell me what's going on here, because I I don't know what that's all about. So I prayed, went into the next office. I said, Uh, what's gonna start a fight? He said, Well, I don't believe the Bible's true. I said, Okay. And he said, You're not gonna hit me with a Bible? I said, Will it help? He said, No. I said, Oh, then I guess that tactic's out. And we discussed it. And he was a regular churchgoer, episcopal, but he grew up in Georgia. People would grab him by the elbow on the street corner and ask him if he was saved. And he'd say, Yeah, I go to church. And that's not what I asked you. I asked if you were saved. So at that point, he was identifying as a Buddhist. Lion Witch in the Wardrobe was coming out. Uh, we got uh at that point it was AAL grant, and we arranged with the theater to have a special showing so we could sell up to a thousand seats with discount tickets for a brand new release. Jack it uh he and two of his friends came, and uh Monday I said to him, So what you think? And he said, Oh, it was phenomenal. He's going on about the film. And another man came in and said, Yeah, I didn't see the Christian symbolism in it. And he said, What do you mean? Edmund betrays his family, Aslan has to die, and then he rises from the dead. And the man said, Oh, you're a Christian, and he paused and he said, Uh no, I'm just spiritual. So a couple days later he comes in, he says, John, I I I think God's trying to tell me something. I said, That's very interesting. What do you think he's trying to tell you? And uh so he was having more and more experiences where God was showing his hand and he wound up being leaving our company and becoming a Christian school teacher. I had a Vietnam vet, hadn't been to church since he got back from the war. I encouraged him to read the Bible. And he got up to Lot and his daughters and he said, How'd these people get into heaven? I said, because it wasn't about what they did, it's what about Christ, what Christ did for all of us. And two weeks later he came back, he said, You probably don't remember what you said, but it made a difference. And he went back to church and he hadn't missed the church service in a few months. And the priest said to him, I'm just curious why you came back. And he said, I talked to a Lutheran. And the priest said, Well, thank him for me. And then just one last one. I had a man, again, I forget how we got on the topic. I mentioned that I was serving a mission congregation as the pastor. And um, he said, Oh, God must have put you in my path because I have lots of questions. So he told me about his normal weekend activities, how he and his friends would get intoxicated on Saturday nights. And I suggested that that was not a God-pleasing way of using his time. So he comes in on Monday and he says, I gotta talk to you. I said, Okay. He said, I thought about what you said. And so I decided this weekend I wasn't going to get drunk. I still went out with my friends, but I didn't drink. First thing I realized, we don't look cool. We look anything but cool. He said, then when we were done, I decided to drive my friend home because he was in no condition. From the time we left the bar parking lot to the time I got to his house, we were followed by a police. He said, if I hadn't followed what you said, I would have gotten a DWI, I would have lost my car and my job. He said, and then I walked into my apartment, my girlfriend was there, and she said, I thought you went out with your friends. And he said, I I I did. I just decided not to drink. And she said, It's nice to have you home this way. He said, So I got lots of questions about my life that I gotta talk to you about because I want to know what God thinks about these things. So it was a wonderful place of mission and for uh people to ask me questions uh that under normal circumstances I wouldn't have had the opportunity to talk to.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Well, that those are some powerful stories of opportunities that God provided you, as you said, to have these conversations. Uh, as I deal with young managers, there's always this issue of how do you create an environment in which uh your coworkers, your people that work for you will feel comfortable to come in and talk with you. And you mentioned how people came in and talked with you for for counseling, uh, preventing suicides, I mean, just these conversations with people. How do you how did you go about developing an a culture or environment where where these employees, these workers would feel comfortable come in and talk to you?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Part of that is being consistent, remembering whose you are and who you represent, who you are in Christ. Uh, a lot of time there, I can't tell you how many drivers told me that they never curse at home, but when they get to this, to the workplace, that's all they do. Because that's the culture of the workplace. And at one point, one of my managers told me as I was transitioning into full-time that I was going to have to conform to the workplace culture. I was if if I was going to expect my employees to respect me, I was going to have to be more gruff and uh curse. And uh I don't conform. Things conform to me. I do not conform. So part of it was people knew my about my faith, and so they would tailor their conversations around me. But because I was consistent uh with the help of God with the uh what I was doing, both sides trusted me. So if there was not an HR person, management and the union reps would have me sit in on a discussion. There was a supervisor in charge of ordering uniforms uh for the men and and women who were at the workplace. And um very frequently you, if you wanted the uniforms you needed and didn't want to have a problem with your appearance, uh, you had a you had to have a good rapport with that particular person. Uh they had me take it over because they knew that no matter what, everyone was going to be treated the same. Uh so it would it was that type of things. Uh, I had one woman who was with us temporarily as a seasonal employee. She was a uh Jewish uh lesbian, and uh my engagement ring is in Hebrew. So she looked at it and she said, That's from the Song of Solomon. And I said, You you read Hebrew? And she was like, Yes. And at the end of her time, uh, she asked a couple of questions about the Bible, but at the end of her time, she thanked me for treating her like everybody else. Um so I I had I had Muslims, I gave the Muslims Christmas cards, wish them a Merry Christmas, uh, gave them Christmas gifts. I I had uh homosexuals that I talked to um in a loving but you know straightforward way, because it it's not up to me to to decide how God's word comes across. I I just have to speak the truth in love. And uh a really big part of it is as Christians, we don't have the luxury of judging. And not my job. That's God's job. And so we had a man who was convicted of uh child molestation, and for the last week before he had to go to prison, he needed a ride. I was the one who drove him to work. I dealt with all kinds, I dealt with uh people of all kinds of uh with all kinds of problems and social issues and and things like that. And that they all knew that regardless of what their life entailed, that they were going to receive the same treatment. And so that really opened the doors because they weren't afraid to share with me the darker areas of their life.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Well, it sounds very powerful that you had the opportunity uh in working with these individuals that you know the biblical principle of all humans are made in the image of God. So therefore, right, we treat people with dignity, dignity, and respect at all always. And so it's always interesting how you can kind of catch people who are not believers that wait, you're you're treating me with dignity and respect. And it's like, well, yeah, yeah, that's what that's what I'm called to do. So I love the stories that you're that you have about that. As in your current role, and I'm I I would imagine that you work with business professionals. Do they do they ever do you have experiences where they've come to you and ask, you know, hey John, how do you I'm having this issue, or how do you think I should live out this how do how do I best live out my faith at work?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

On a personal level, um, I don't get too much in regards to the question of ethics, but I I do get questions of I have a difficult person at work, um or in the in the realm of um other personal interactions or interests. For instance, I have uh one lady who wants her daughter to get more involved in the church, doesn't want her to go down uh the road of the occult, and um told me that she's highly involved in Renaissance fairs and and that's a concern for her because she knows where that can lead. And so um I asked her to contact her daughter and see if her daughter will work with me on creating a church presence at a Renaissance fair. And I I try to encourage that kind of thing with the workplace. If people say that they don't know what to do, I say, well, you know, if if you're at a loss for words or if you have someone that you think needs help but you're not sure how to proceed, I'm sure you'll do great. God calls the uh doesn't call the equipped, he equips the call. But if you want to invite me to lunch, I'll come to lunch, I'll sit there, we can talk. Uh so I encourage that. I encourage, you know, just remembering whose you are, who you are, and who you represent, because people interpret God through his followers and the actions they see.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, I I heard just recently someone say that uh we may be the only Bible that some people will read. And I that just kind of caught me the way they said that, and that's exactly what you're talking about, right? This idea that in many cases, particularly in the workplace, you you know, you're you may be the only Christian they come in contact with. Uh and the pastor of your church may not be going into your workplace, but you are, and so that's uh and a very powerful opportunity. Which leads me to the question: if you had some young professionals come up to you and ask, hey John, I'm just going into the into this place for a full time job and uh I want to be able to live out my faith in the workplace, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I would tell them, first of all, live your faith. Uh it doesn't include judging, you know, you don't have to worry about that. Just be who you who you are in Christ. Build genuine relationships with the People inside your workplace, even if you don't intend to see them outside of it, because that those eight hours, 40 hours a day, 40 hours a week, uh, that's a significant part of your and their life. So even if you're not hanging around on the weekends, allow people to see Christ's work in, through, and in spite of you. You know, you you have your your failings. So it's it's okay to say, I don't know. It's okay to say I never thought of that. Let's find out together or let me find out and come back to you. Uh, Lutherans are good at saying I don't know. So, you know, it it's a good part of our tradition. And then I I think the the most important thing is not to have a fear of the future. You're in God's hand. And whatever you say, whatever you do, if someone gets offended and it ends your employment there, God's got something better in mind. But you want to be true to who you are uh in him so that and and not worry about the details that only he can control.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

That's that's very powerful. I also uh like what you were talking about. I'll tell uh students that, well, you know, most people are gonna end up spending somewhere around a hundred thousand hours at work. You know, you so it's it's a it's a significant part of your waking life for your whole life. And so uh how are you going to live that out? How are you going to use that as an opportunity to honor God with your gifts and talents? And it really is kind of an eye-opening moment to think about, well, that's a long time, and that's a big part of my life uh at this place called work, and there's an opportunity for me there to worship God and how I and how I work.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, and the place I was at, as I indicated before, was not my dream job.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

But that's where God put me.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Right, exactly. And that's all that's that's the experience many people have. But how do you then live out the faith in a place where maybe it's it's not your ideal job, but that's where you're at.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah. So uh John, tell me a little bit about uh what are you reading or listening to?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Okay, so right now I'm reading uh a book called The Social Gospel in American Religion, and it's a uh history of social gospel and what it it's doing is it's uh so at the end of the second great awakening in the 19th century, uh part of that great awakening was that faith should be put into action. And then af afterwards that melding in with uh Pietism and stuff like movements like that, the thought pattern transformed from bringing people to faith so that they could go to heaven to creating a heaven on earth. And uh these movements that started in the church with a biblical basis then got transformed into political movements with a secular backing to them. And so in trying to understand the where we are in the 21st century as a nation, um, I uh I've been reading about that social gospel and and how it manifests itself at this point.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

And who's the author of that book?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

You know, uh Christopher H. Evans.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Interesting. Yeah, there's there's a lot in that area where it's sometimes gone off the rails and tried to use uh the name of Christ in what they're doing, but yet there's been a lot of good that has been done by people within the church, you know, doing doing putting their faith into action.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah, and I I think one of the the biggest part of it, or one of the most obvious examples, is during the second great awakening, women were elevated in the church. They started to take leadership roles, which led to the women's movement, and they were being held up as better than the men because they were showing a Christ-like example by the way they nurtured their families, raised their children in the faith, and supported their husbands. And as I said, that gives rise to the women's movement till you get to the 1960s, and feminist theologians are saying, okay, well, that's great, that's worked for all of these centuries, and it's a uh they really make the case of how God has given them signs of their femininity and womanhood that puts them in a state of being as opposed to a man who has to prove himself and his manhood every day. Uh, but then they say, all right, well, women should be a whole person but unto themselves. And so they they completely advocate for shedding everything that gave them that elevated status. Uh so it's uh that the the one article by Goldstein that I read, which was a feminine view and and considered the first feminist theologian uh treatment. You read 75% of the argument, and it's like, oh, she gets it. This is what the Bible says, this is what God wants. And then she says, Yeah, but it's too late to turn back the clock, so we need to support this new movement. You said it's self-destructive to women, men, and to society, but let's pursue it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yes, and and they say that the the church is has somehow, you know, oppressed women, but yet in many cases it was they were made their their whole selves through the church. And it's just an interesting dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah, it it's it's fascinating, and it's really nice to see that I think we're I think because we're now in a meta modern age, we're we're coming out of that. W women are starting to say, you know what, I don't I don't have to be a man in a man's world or prove I can survive as a man in a man's world to show that I'm a woman. I can be a woman in its own right and earn respect for being who I am.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Absolutely. Hey, John, before we go, I Neat would want to ask you where what's next on the list for your national park visit? Which what's the next the plan for the next national park?

SPEAKER_00 28:08

So the next national park trip is gonna be in uh beginning of March. And uh we're gonna first place we're gonna go is to Tuskegee to see the Institute, Booker T. Washington's house. We'll be in Montgomery Selma to see where the march took place, and then we'll be uh visiting some civil war sites in uh Mississippi and Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Absolutely. That sounds like a great trip.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Well, John, I'm I'm grateful for your time today. Uh thank you very much. Did you have any closing thoughts you wanted to share before we end today?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

No, but thank you very much for inviting me and for all you do for the kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Join us next time on the Skillful at Work Podcast as we interview Christians about living wisely in the workplace and serving as the salt and light at work. If you want to be encouraged and equipped to live your life of faith more effectively in the workplace, the Skillful at Work Podcast is for you.