Skillful at Work with Curt Beck, Ph.D.
The Skillful at Work Podcast offers an engaging discussion about living wisely in the workplace, encouraging and equipping Christians to live out their faith at work.
If you want to be encouraged and equipped to live your life of faith more effectively in the workplace, the Skillful at Work Podcast is for you.
Skillful at Work with Curt Beck, Ph.D.
Adrienne Blauvelt
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Adrienne is doing ministry in western Nebraska. Prior to moving to Nebraska, she and her husband spent 20 years working in Texas. She talks about leading staff and volunteers.
She addresses a powerful question of "Do we really believe what God has called us to do." Adrienne describes how we can sometimes compartmentalize areas of our lives, including our faith.
If you want to be encouraged and equipped to live your life of faith more effectively in the workplace, the Skillful at Work Podcast is for you.
Welcome to the Skillful at Work Podcast, where we explore living out our faith in the workplace. I am your host, Dr. Kurt Beck, a professor of management and a leadership coach. Join me in my next conversation as I talk with Christians skillfully living out their faith at work for examples, resources, and practical tips that will encourage and equip us to honor God at work. Today we are talking with Adrian Blavelt, who is co-pastoring out in western Nebraska. Adrian, tell us a little about yourself.
SPEAKER_01Yes, so my husband and I, we just moved to Nebraska in July. So we're we're new transplants to Nebraska. It's actually my husband's hometown that we're in. And for the last 20 years, uh, we've been doing ministry in South Texas. So that's where we were before this. And we've got two kids. Got a 14-year-old girl, 17-year-old boy. My husband and I, we've been privileged to do a lot. Uh work in a lot of different areas, ministries, and uh it's just been a privilege.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Can you tell us a little bit about some of your experiences of living out your faith in the workplace?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, I I have had secular jobs before, but a majority of my work experience has been in the church, which you would think it's full of faith. It's amazing. No, you're still you're still working with people, and uh, people are messy, as we all know. And so it is it definitely been a learning process. At the last church, we were at the church started off with attendance around 300 people. When we left 20 years later, it was over 9,000 people. And so between uh leading staff, leading volunteers, at one time I was leading all of our serving areas uh over thousands of people. And uh uh just working in that environment, it just takes a lot of grace and a lot of wisdom as you walk with people through it.
SPEAKER_00What are some uh do you have some experiences you can talk about where you've had to interact with people, particularly people you're leading uh and that are they are they work out in in the uh uh the workplace outside of the church? How would you have encouraged them to be more faithful in their workplace?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think I think we all have the ability to compartmentalize areas of our life. And uh one of the things that I've learned myself and I've seen in others is we can have different faces that we put on. We have the church face, we have the when I'm home with my family in the workplace. And I think what it comes down to is how we really hold our faith. Do we really believe what God has called us to do in making disciples in every arena of our lives, including the workplace? Because it's real easy. It's really easy to go say, okay, this is my nine to five. I'm gonna go check in, do the job, and check out and not interact with anybody. But God calls us to more, and it comes down to what we actually believe to be true. If God has put us somewhere, that he has a purpose for us in that. So whether whether it is serving a church, whether it's in our family or in our workplace, viewing every lens of our life as a mission field of just this is the opportunity that God's put in front of me. And so I've walked through with many people uh through this before, as far as, you know, in in work and in their lives, and just I think we have to deal with our own hearts in it because it's very easy to do that. It's very easy to compartmentalize, it's very easy to say, well, I'm just gonna, because I think we all have this innate ability to please others. We we want to look around us and we wanna we wanna people please, and because of that, it dictates behaviors that come out of us.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. We talk a lot on this podcast with people who uh struggle with that in two ways. First, the idea of compartmentalizing their faith, and then the other part of it is this idea you mentioned before, that the idea of work is a mission field. And we often, and quite frankly, the the church itself historically has sometimes uh maybe not approach this in a great way of how to how do you deal with people who work in a bank and a business and a manufacturing plant. And it's like, well, you can be holy on Sundays, but then on you know, then you go back to work on Monday. But really, equipping those folks to be able to live like Christ in the workplace can be very powerful. It is their mission field. They're gonna reach people that you as a pastor aren't ever gonna interact with, possibly, and yet here they have the chance to deal with that person on a day-to-day basis and show kindness, compassion, which opens up doorways to open conversations.
SPEAKER_01Which I think the hard part in that is you still got to get work done. Yeah, and so there's this balance of, you know, if you're in any sort of management or leadership where you've got to meet a bottom line. But then you have Joe sit across from you and tell you his story. His grandma died last week, or you know, a cancer diagnosis just hit their family. And so you're torn in those moments of I still have a job to do here, but I do want to meet this with grace and compassion. And I think there can be a balance in that. I think sometimes we swing the pendulum too far, like, oh, I'm just gonna fall all over myself with grace for this person because you know they're going through this. So I'm gonna take their work and I'm gonna load it on 10 other people and take them off in the process. And but, and then the other side says, Well, I'm just gonna be hard-nosed about everything so that nobody wants to talk to me about anything. Um, and I so there's a giant pendulum there, and I think we can find ourselves in the middle. I think that there is, it is possible to have clear expectations plus grace and empathy and love for others in the process. And it doesn't have to be preachy either. I think sometimes we feel like, you know, at work um that I've got I've everybody has to hear me say what I believe, and I have to try to save them with my words. Well, you cannot save, only the Holy Spirit can save. And people are gonna learn more from your actions, what's coming out of you, than anything else. Uh, what it scripture says, they'll know that you're my disciples by your love, and that is gonna speak louder than anything that you could preach to somebody.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's so true. I just had breakfast this morning with a manager here of a business in Lincoln and the very same conversation. How you deal with when you're where whenever you're in management, you deal with people and they're messy. I mean, just because life is messy and and they have things going on in their life, and we'd love to be able to leave that at the door and come in and work, but actually it's it's dealing with that mess. And then you made a great point about this idea of how do you balance accountability with love and compassion, and it's a difficult thing. Can you talk more about that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I think relational capital is huge from somebody's onset, and I think especially with the generation that's rising in leadership, they want to know that you care. They don't always want you to agree with them, they don't want you to always take their side. They just want you to listen and know that you care. And I think as leaders, as we invest managerially in the lives of people, um, understanding that they are people. And so there has to be, and I think we have to build that in to the agenda at some points, um, to where there's room, there's margin. I think if we've maxed ourselves so completely on schedule that there's little margin for any of that relational capital to be built, well, then we've just shot ourselves in the foot because what's gonna come off from us is this this person doesn't care. They have got an agenda, they're too busy. I've I used to hear that all the time. Early on in leader, I was thrust into leadership at a very young age. Uh, I was in my 20s, I should not have been leading what I was leading. Um, but I always heard that she's too busy for me and she doesn't care because uh, and I think the more you move up in leadership, you're usually a type A driven leader. So your drivenness comes off as they don't care about me. They don't care about me because they're so focused. And type A's, we are we're focused, we want to get that goal, we want to hit the bottom line. And so, usually what it equates to if we don't treat this well, if we don't build in margin for relational capital, then what you're taking more time on the back end because you're gonna deal with a really big blow up, you're gonna deal with a lot of frustration, you're gonna deal with deadlines not being met, you're gonna deal with team friction or toxicity because we haven't managed that well. And so as we lead that, because I used to be a leader too, that to be honest, this is a confession. I was in ministry working with people, but I didn't care. Like because I was so type A and driven. And so literally I had to start praying the prayer, God help me love people like you love people, like just simple. God, more of you, less of me in my work. Because I was not seeing people as they were. And so I because of that, I made bad decisions that put the team in lurches, and it was not healthy or good for them. And so on the back end, I mean, I literally um like two months ago, I reached out to a former employee that worked for me and I apologized to them.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_01And I said, I'm so sorry. I'm so you were with me when I was young, and I I did this and this, and I should never have done that, and I'm sorry. And it meant the world to them. So people don't care how much you know, they care how much you care.
SPEAKER_00Can you talk about more about when you realize that? Because as a type A driven leader, when did you realize, well, maybe it's a little bit more about relations? And I should take that moment to say, hey, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's when it's when I was losing people and losing momentum. And so I think there's some signature flags there that as leaders, we need to understand and recognize that when team morale is down, I need to ask myself why. Because it's so easy for us as leaders to blame others. It's so easy to say, well, they didn't do their job here, they would have done that. Everything rises and falls on leadership. I really believe that. And so goes the leader, so goes the organization or the team. And so I started to realize that about the time too, they started calling me the Black Widow, which is never a good thing. My goodness. Uh, on a church staff, mind you. So we're there too. So, you know, people, I remember somebody asking me once, like, what do you do on church staff all day? Do you guys like sing songs? Do you know? It it is an organization and it is business. And I think I think that as leaders, we it's like quicksand for us. And I think too, the more success you have, the more careful about this you have to be. Because success is a driver that also brings blind spots to our vision that we don't quite see. And so we're trying to keep up with that success. We're trying to keep up with more. And in the process, we can demand more and more from our employees, but it's kind of a more bricks, less straw scenario. And that also brings uh uh its own amount of unhealth. I think that, and one more thing I would add to it is as a leader, you cannot be untouchable. If nobody is willing to give you feedback, that is a problem. That's and that is your first red flag as a leader. If nobody is willing to tell you the truth, then you're in further than you think you are, and you need to really focus on a getting healthy yourself and getting back to what you know to be true, and then B emulating that to team and helping them along in the process as well.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Tell me more about uh if I were to have observed you 20 years ago and now, as you mentioned, the person you called that said it wasn't going as well as you would have liked. How would a person today talk about uh seeing you differently in the sense of building relationships with others?
SPEAKER_01I think it's it's learning to slow your rhythm to not go so fast all the time. I did one of uh my colleagues that I led with in Texas, who was a fellow pastor, he said, Adrian, I've never seen more transformation in an individual than in you, uh and your and your leadership. And and and I will say this to leaders too. I think sometimes as leaders, we we feel like this pressure of responsibility and that you have to know the answer. Like you have to be the leader, you have to take the reins and take charge. And because of that, you there's this never let them see you sweat mentality. But I think the greatest testimony to those who are closest to us, whether it be at work, home, wherever, is watching you go through the sanctification process with the Lord, watching him transform you. That that again, because it goes back to what we said at the beginning, the the best things that people will receive from you is not what you say to them, but what you model to them. And people seeing that visible difference in me, it went from I had no time for anybody. Um, I would cut you with my words. Like if you weren't performing, I was quick to give you feedback that was very critical. Um, when, and I think as a leader, I had to learn that there's two sides to every story. And so instead of going in, you know, some of us we act like knowers, like we know, we know what happened. And it's really just a pile of assumption, is what it is. And so we go guns blazing into it, and we forget that that is a person sitting across from us. You know, scripture tells us our battle is not against flesh and blood, but of powers and principalities of darkness. I had to learn that that person sitting across from me, they are not my enemy. We are on the same team, we are after the same goal. If they win, I win, and vice versa. And so my best investment became people. And so it was a real turn in the ship to say, instead of trying to be the leader who knows all the answers, I'm gonna come alongside you and I am going to equip you, train you, listen to you, give you everything you need to succeed. Because the gifts that God has given you, I can see those gifts. And once we've pinpointed what those gifts are, I'm gonna help you flourish. And that became, to me, the greatest win. Instead of me winning, the team winning, the individuals winning. And it became this huge shift in mentality that is genuinely only by the grace of God and his sanctifying power.
SPEAKER_00Sure. But can you pinpoint when that shift occurred or when you think when you became at least aware of that that shift had occurred?
SPEAKER_01I think so. It was in my late 20s when it started. And I think it it was upon further reflection with myself because more things started to fall than just the work. So it started to roll over into my personal life, how I parented, how I was with my husband. And it got to the point where, you know, as a leader, I could recognize people weren't happy. I was frustrating those around me. And so there wasn't an exact moment I can pinpoint, but it was kind of coming to the end of myself and realizing this is affecting multiple spheres. And if if I don't get this right, I'm gonna sink everybody around me. And it ended with me on my knees in front of the Lord saying, God help, because I can't, I don't have the power to do this on my own.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Let's shift a little bit to talk about um the workplace in the sense that uh when I'm talking with uh people on the podcast or with my students, we talk about Proverbs 11:1, really is saying that God is disgusted by dishonest business practices. How have you demonstrated honesty even in in your workplace being in a in a church setting?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, that's a good question. I think I think sometimes we all think we know the right answer. And there's times where even in um ministry or in life, where you have to give an answer that is honest instead of what people want you to say. Um, and I think I had to learn that at the end of the day, like I'm gonna stand before the Lord and be accountable for how I led my life. And and it hasn't always been honest. I think as type A's, I think we can easily manipulate. I think we can easily be a bit narcissistic and try to work things to uh the degree that we want them to go. Um, and so I think it's for me learning through error, hindsight's always the best teacher, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00If you spend the time reflecting on it, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, and that's the other thing with leaders. Sometimes we go so fast that we do not take the time to reflect. Yes. And like I think for a leader, the most important parts of your day are how you go into work and how you leave work practically. Um, and that's allowed me to work in more honesty. But usually hindsight's the best teacher. I'm having trouble thinking of an exact story right now. Um, but I think there's been times where I've had to be so honest and that it hurts somebody, that it hurts somebody getting a job, that it hurts somebody staying in a job. But knowing that, and because I think even in the church world, I think we try to make things okay for everybody. And so sometimes we fluff our honesty to give an answer that's going to make everybody happy around us when you know you look, you're looking at somebody and they they are a poor performer and that it's been recorded. And just because it's ministry doesn't mean you have to keep them on because that's a stewardship in itself. And so those are the moments that I've had to be really honest that are very difficult. And I think learning how to be honest with people when they're sitting across the table, giving permission for people to be honest with you, and then being honest with others in return. Because again, I think we can be so fluffy sometimes, but iron sharpens iron, right? That that's the whole goal, which means that it's gonna hurt a little sometimes, but there's a way to speak the truth in love. And so I've had people sit across from me, I've heard what they have to say. Can I give you one thing to think about, one thing to consider, one thing to maybe um practice for next time? And then I always gave those who worked uh for me and with me, I gave them opportunity to be honest in return with me. And I told them up front, I I will, I will hurt you, I will offend you, I will not mean to a lot of the time. And so I need you to be able to call foul in the moment. I need you to be honest with me back and say that hurt. And I had people that would practice it because we created that environment that goes back to the building relational capital and and not retaliating on people when they are honest with you, not saying getting defensive, well, I didn't mean that, or but you did this. Like not retaliating on people when they when they are trying to be honest, because then you just assured that they'll never be honest with you again if you do that.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um, and so I think it's giving and receiving honesty that I've seen in my life, which is built on this relationship, which is built on trust, so that you can have that openness to say and speak truth, but yet it's not hurtful because it's not meant to be. But it's just really in how you present it and how you speak it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and then knowing I because I think the biggest disservice that we do people sometimes is just trying to make everybody happy all the time. If you're a manager and you're thinking, how can I make everybody on my team happy? Well, you're gonna you're gonna bomb that one so quickly because that will change tomorrow. Um, and so if we know, you know, there's a stat that over 90% of communication is misunderstood, which as a pastor is very discouraging sometimes. Um so if over 90% of communication is misunderstood, this is what I would always tell my team there there will be a moment where we misunderstood. Misunderstand each other. And so rather than you go and fester on it and think, oh, well, she thinks this, this, and this. Either you got to let it go because you know you got to fill that gap with trust and know that I love you and I'm for you. Or you need to say it so that we can move forward in a healthy way, and me vice versa, with people. So I think you have to like being honest with people, you have to set the environment for honesty. It doesn't just happen.
SPEAKER_00That's very powerful. Let me ask you a question from the standpoint of if you had a young professional walk up to you and uh say, uh, Adrian, uh, I'm just about to go into a new workplace and I'm really uh have been challenged to live out my faith at work. What are some practical tips you could share with that person to get ready for that experience?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I would say going back to what I said before, the most powerful time you have is your time before you go to the office and when you leave the office. Um, and so that front end, if I'm rolling out of bed 30 minutes before work, grabbing a burrito, stuffing it down my face, you're not, you're not doing that well. Um, if you really feel challenged to live out your faith, then that time that you prepare yourself before you go be around people is highly important. Uh one of my mentors, she told me the other day, I was reflecting on ministry, and her and her husband were pastors for many years. And I said, if you had to do it all over again, like what would you tell yourself at the beginning of this? And she said, I would tell myself to put more expectation on God and less expectation on people.
SPEAKER_00That's very good.
SPEAKER_01It's so good because because people will fail us, people will break our trust in in every circle, both directions. And so I, you know, Ephesians talks about putting on the armor of God. So I I think in my day, before I do anything, before I make breakfast for my kids, uh, before I do but do all the chores for the day, before I start work, like I've got to put that armor on. The armor is not magnetic, it's not just flying to me. Like I've got to make a choice to enter in and put on the armor of God, which means I need to be in the word and I need to be in prayer, and I need to ask the Lord for wisdom and discernment. So walking into my job, my spiritual antennas are up. Wisdom, I'm asking for wisdom to do the actual job that God has called me to do. Um, so I think I would say that you know, during your day, there will be days where you feel yourself tanking, where you feel yourself like this this is not going well. I would encourage you over your lunch, instead of going out with all the office buddies for lunch, get outside, take a walk, get in the sunshine, refresh yourself in the Lord. If it's a particularly stressful moment. And sometimes our jobs are so busy and demanding, you can only do that for five minutes. That's okay though. Five minutes is what you need to restart your system and get back into it and renew your perspective because sometimes when we're in the nitty-gritty, all we can see is what is right in front of us. So sometimes you got to pull yourself back and pull your gaze up to what's actually true. So that's during. So that's before, during, and then after. When you leave the office for the day, it is so easy to take uh anxiety, frustration, insecurity about what happened in the course of your day with you. Um, and one of the greatest things one of my mentors taught me was that that drive home is the most important part for whoever it is for yourself and then whoever it is that you're going home to. And so ending your day, whether you have to sit in the parking lot in your car for a minute and just take a breath, take a breath, put on some music, talk to the Lord, let release, release what happened that day because tomorrow's battles will be there tomorrow. You don't got to take them home with you. There's been many times where I would take home my frustration, and my poor children and husband had to deal with the ramifications of that. That's not fair to them, and that's not fair to me. Um, and that goes back to the car compartmentalizing. We cannot compartmentalize and just say, well, I was frustrated at work, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna take it out on you. And we all fail this battle, right? But that drive home, releasing that tension, letting it go. You know, I can't, I can't remember what battles I was fighting five years ago. But in that moment, I would have told you they were the most important things in this world. Right. And they're easily forgotten. But what remains? My soul remains, my children remain, my husband remains, and they're going to remember my treatment of them. The issue itself is gone, but they remain. So taking that home with you. So that's what I would encourage any professional in.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's very interesting how you frame that from the beginning, during, and then after, but you know, beginning, uh, I'm glad you mentioned uh the armor of God. I have one of those armor of God challenge coins that I keep in my car, and every day before I, you know, and I work in a Christian organization as well. So even that I I I kind of remind myself, okay, Lord, I'm going into the uh please put on the armor of God and and then and go. So it's it's very powerful to incorporate scripture. Talk to me about um what are you reading? What are you what other podcasts are you a part of or listening to?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I'm I'm actually in a big season of listening uh to a lot of podcasts. I well, of course, the the word is the thing I read the most. Like, can't live without it. Um just true. And I will encourage people in that because I think it's assumed, right? It's assumed that we're in the word. It's assumed whether you work in ministry or you're Christ's follower, that you're just doing these things naturally. But I think as leaders, like we cannot negate that. That's very true because we need it so deeply. And I know I feel like even more so that there's sometimes a soul resistance to it, because the enemy of our soul doesn't want us to put on the armor of God, doesn't want us to be in the word. Um, and so that's literally a battle to continue fighting always. Um, but as far as podcasts goes, uh, the Charlotte Gamble Podcast, uh Fight Club is amazing. I would really encourage women, any women in leadership. Uh, there's a lot of good tidbits, guys. You would get stuff out of it too. But uh, she's incredible and a personal mentor to me. And then uh Craig Lee uh Craig Rochelle Leadership Podcast. Love that one. And uh Grow Leader by um uh Church of the Highlands uh is a great uh podcast. Chris Hodges does that one, and those I would encourage everybody in.
SPEAKER_00What was the second one that you mentioned by Craig?
SPEAKER_01Uh uh Craig Lee um Craig Rochelle? The Craig Rochelle Leadership Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Awesome. Now uh and I I really appreciate how you you mentioned spending time in the Word, but beyond that, are there any uh other books you've been reading lately that have been meaningful?
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah. Um uh Elizabeth Elliott uh wrote a book called Suffering is Never for Nothing. And she it's it's a book on suffering, and she defines suffering as anything that happens in our life that we didn't anticipate or want. And so it doesn't just have to be a loss, it could be the loss of a dream, a career, a move, whatever it is. Um, and I'd really encourage that one. And then um, I'm also reading Dietrich Bonhoeffer's The Cost of Discipleship as well, right now. It's I love that book.
SPEAKER_00Love that book. I I'm challenged by that book. I'm challenged by it, yes.
SPEAKER_01Me too. Me too.
SPEAKER_00Yes, the cheap grace is just a very such a powerful, powerful concept.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So um also a good one I would recommend too for leadership is uh leaders eat last. I think it's by Simon Seinek. Um, and that's a really good if you're talking about serving those around you in relational capital, um, that's a really good one.
SPEAKER_00Now, earlier you talked about your style of leadership. You didn't name it, but it sounds to me like servant leadership. Is that a word you're familiar with? And if so, tell me more about that.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I think servant leadership is the model that Christ gave us, and I think it's what we should all be shooting for. Um, and so my style of leadership um changed from more dictatorship, I would call it, to a form of servant leadership. And I think age helps with that, maturity helps with that, walking with Christ helps with that. Um, because I think some of us really, really struggle with the bottom line of maybe just our wiring and how God created us to lead, but the responsible outlets of how to do that can be found in that concept of servant leadership. And basically that is what scripture says is putting others before yourself. And uh it's just a more free way to live. I will say that.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's very effective. Not only is it powerful, but it's effective because you mentioned earlier how you help others grow, which really is the focus of servant leadership by helping others grow and then they flourish, then the organization flourishes just by focusing on your followers, which is an interesting concept.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think we can, I think some of us type A, anybody, not just type A's, we can get greedy with leadership. We can greedy, we can get power hungry, even in a church setting and dynamic to where, well, it has to be our word and we have to have an opinion on everything, and we have to, well, let me tell you the truth, you don't always know the right answer. Um, so so and it takes a lot off because I think a lot of us are wearing that in it is insecurity, is what it is at the end of the day. And a lot of us are wearing that into our workplaces, but it's masquerading as leadership or I've been called, I I've got put in this position. And so I think this idea, it is so it's a freeing moment when you realize you don't always have to have the right answer. And actually, the best lead, the best leaders I know harvest the best information from their teams. They are good harvesters, they're good at sifting through the grain and seeing what sticks and what doesn't. Oh, that's a good idea. Or what if this person helped with this? They are great at building bridges between people. Hey, I think you should connect with this person because they have a lot of insight on this specific thing that we're tackling right now. That the best leaders I know, knock that out of the park.
SPEAKER_00I love how you say that. It's so awesome to hear harvesters. I talk a lot about, you know, listeners. Being a good listener is a key concept of leadership. But that that really that really uh nails the subject. I mean, the word harvesters. That's uh that's excellent.
SPEAKER_01Yes, no, it's good. And listening to I had a hard time listening for many years. So if you don't listen, you can't you can't harvest the information.
SPEAKER_00Right, right, right. Well, Adrian, this has been a very uh fun and powerful conversation. Is there anything else you thought of that you wanted to mention today when you were getting ready for the podcast?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I just want to encourage leaders in the fact that, you know, as you walk through this idea of leadership, again, the best thing your team and for those around you to see is you walking through the process of maturity and leadership. That's gonna speak more to anybody than anything else that you do or say. And people just want care. They want care, but there's fine balance between the two.
SPEAKER_00So Adrian, I so I so appreciate your time today. I'm very grateful. Uh you just nailed it even at the end there, this idea of perspective and the idea of servant leadership and listening. And it's all about uh modeling this behavior, not just talking it, but walking it. And so that's been been very powerful for me. And again, I appreciate it, and I'm so grateful you were a part of our podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00Join us next time on the Skillful at Work Podcast as we interview Christians about living wisely in the workplace and serving as the salt and light at work. If you want to be encouraged and equipped to live your life of faith more effectively in the workplace, the Skillful at Work Podcast is for you.